Comments for HTML Forms generation and validation

09 Aug 2006 21:47 mlemos

Re: Project hosting


> This begs the question: why do you keep

> advertising your stuff on the

> oh-so-unknown and inferior freshmeat

> site then?

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said or meant that Freshmeat is an inferior site. I was not comparing it to anything else. What I meant is that nobody knows all sites, not even a great part of those that exist. So, it is only natural that PHP classes site users and authors do not know Freshmeat.

Furthermore, the purpose and scope of the sites is different. In the PHPClasses site you can browse and download the PHP packages published their. In Freshmeat you see only announcements about packages that are not available here, but include other languages besides PHP, as well PHP packages published in other sites.

Announcing packages in Freshmeat can always help authors letting others know their work, regardless whether they published in the PHPClasses site or not.

> % [...] Any reasonable human being can

> understand this.

>

> While some human beings never seem to

> comprehend whose unreasonable

> stubbornness actually triggered the

> 200th(?) flamefest on this topic.

While people are able to stay reasonable and put pertinent questions without intention to cause tumult and without departing to personal insult, I can try to be patient and explain why certain things are not the way those people think it should be. If your intention is just to throw more flames just because you do not agree with the way the site operates, sorry I cannot justify any further time to follow-up.

09 Aug 2006 17:05 pilo

Re: Project hosting


> Nonsense, most PHP users and authors do not even know Freshmeat.

This begs the question: why do you keep advertising your stuff on the oh-so-unknown and inferior freshmeat site then?

> [...] Any reasonable human being can understand this.

While some human beings never seem to comprehend whose unreasonable stubbornness actually triggered the 200th(?) flamefest on this topic.

20 Jul 2006 20:53 mlemos

Re: Project hosting


> % I am

> % sure if you would develop Open Source

> % projects, you would appreciate the

> % service provided by the site.

>

> I am developing open source projects,

> and I certainly wouldn't

> consider hosting them on this site, for

> the following reasons:

Whether or not you submit any projects of yours to the site, it is only your decision. If you choose to exclude yourself from benefiting of the exposure that the site provides to authors, it is solely your problem. Nobody will be upset.

> 1. It is almost impossible to navigate

> the site. Almost every link either pops

> up some ad, or redirects to a full-page

> ad that redirects to the target page

> after some timeout. This is not the kind

> of site where I would like to dwell for

> some time, looking around for goodies -

> rather it is exactly the type of site

> that I wish to visit for the shortest

> amount of time possible, and wish to

> leave as soon as possible. Let alone

> that the ads are not even on topic.

>

> I fully admit that there is a need for

> generating revenue by ads - google does

> it, freshmeat does it, almost everyone

> else does it, too - but there are

> obnoxious ways of advertising, and

> friendly/bearable ones. phpclasses.org

> is one of the worst I've ever come to

> see. An important part of good

> advertisement is the art of attracting

> users, instead of alienating them.

%

Trust me, the site puts advertising recommended by ad agencies like Google AdSense, Fastclick, Tribafusion, etc.. It puts all the ads that you see because it needs the revenue to survive. It is certainly not to annoy the users, although it is impossible to not annoy some.

It is like free television channels. They are free, but you need to put up with whatever advertising they present. You can subscribe to cable television to get less advertising, but you still will get some channels with advertising.

As I mentioned, the site will provide ad-free paid options similar to buying a cable television subscription. Users that do not like advertising will have that option. That is a good alternative to keep the site viable.

It is pointless to complain that the advertising is not on-topic or you do not like the way it is presented. I do not have the privilege to discard most the advertising because the site would not survive without it.

If you have difficulty to understand this, maybe when you have a site like this to maintain, you will be able to realize the things as they are, not the way you wished.

>

> 2. You say that one can opt out of the

> 'newsletters'. Then why does the site

> try to prevent signing up with a

> spamgourmet mail address? If I can opt

> out anyway, the site shouldn't care. The

> only possible reason for caring is the

> desire to collect valid email addresses

> (for spam?).

It is nothing like that. Accepting subscriptions of users with disposable addresses causes several problems.

Unfortunately it is too easy to create new accounts with disposable addresses. That helps cheating authors to create new accounts to overrate their packages and gain elicit exposure. In some cases they could gain undeserved prizes like in the PHP Programming Innovation Award. This is totally unfair to authors that really deserve to win.

Another problem is that most disposable address systems accept the newsletter messages forever, even though no user will receive and benefit from them. This makes the site waste bandwidth for nothing.

The site is on budget with hosting costs. To not raise prices the hosting company has put a bandwidth cap. This means that the transfer rate is limited.

When the site is serving too many pages or too many newsletters at the same time, connections are put on hold and the Web site users will suffer from site slow down.

Therefore, the site had to put on an effort to limit the bandwidth used by sending the newsletters. Not accepting subscriptions of users with disposable addresses was one of the measures.

>

> 3.

> If I want to be informed about updates

> to some software, I can always subscribe

> to it on freshmeat. This is much nicer

> (because I can opt-in, rather than

> having to opt-out of something I didn't

> ever want in the first place).

>

Nonsense, most PHP users and authors do not even know Freshmeat.

%

> 4.

> As a developer, I don't want to freshmeat

my users to a flood of junk ads, and I

> also don't want to force emails down

> their throat. I'd rather prefer if they

> have a pleasurable overall experience.

%

As I said above, that is totally your problem. The PHPClasses site provides a tremendous exposure to the authors work. The site has over 370,000 subscribers and is growing at a rate of about 10,000 new subscribers a month. Of these near 150,000 receive new class alerts newsletters at least once a week.

There are also the valuable prizes to the winning authors of the innovation award can gain.

If you do not care about the benefits provided by the site, that is ok. As I also mentioned it is impossible to please everybody. The site is focused in pleasing those that care, while keeping itself financially viable. Any reasonable human being can understand this.

20 Jul 2006 08:49 rainer

Re: Project hosting

> As the author of these classes, I can
> tell you that the service provided by
> the site is wonderful.

(snip)

> I am
> sure if you would develop Open Source
> projects, you would appreciate the
> service provided by the site.

I am developing open source projects, and I certainly wouldn't
consider hosting them on this site, for the following reasons:


1. It is almost impossible to navigate the site. Almost every link either pops up some ad, or redirects to a full-page ad that redirects to the target page after some timeout. This is not the kind of site where I would like to dwell for some time, looking around for goodies - rather it is exactly the type of site that I wish to visit for the shortest amount of time possible, and wish to leave as soon as possible. Let alone that the ads are not even on topic.


I fully admit that there is a need for generating revenue by ads - google does it, freshmeat does it, almost everyone else does it, too - but there are obnoxious ways of advertising, and friendly/bearable ones. phpclasses.org is one of the worst I've ever come to see. An important part of good advertisement is the art of attracting users, instead of alienating them.


2. You say that one can opt out of the 'newsletters'. Then why does the site try to prevent signing up with a spamgourmet (http://spamgourmet.com) mail address? If I can opt out anyway, the site shouldn't care. The only possible reason for caring is the desire to collect valid email addresses (for spam?).


3.
If I want to be informed about updates to some software, I can always subscribe to it on freshmeat. This is much nicer (because I can opt-in, rather than having to opt-out of something I didn't ever want in the first place).


4.
As a developer, I don't want to expose my users to a flood of junk ads, and I also don't want to force emails down their throat. I'd rather prefer if they have a pleasurable overall experience.

19 Jul 2006 13:31 mlemos

Re: Project hosting
I am afraid there are several misunderstandings here.

As the author of these classes, I can tell you that the service provided by the site is wonderful. It keeps track of all users that download my classes. When I release an update, an automatic newsletter is sent to my class users to let them know about the changes, so they can be kept up to data and always use the latest version with the newest improvements and bug fixes.

If you do not want to receive the site newsletters, that is OK. You can choose which newsletters you want to receive or not in the user options page, or by sending an unsubscribe request to an address mentioned at the bottom of each message.

Furthermore, when I release new classes, the site sends a newsletter telling all users about it.

This is great because it provides extraordinary exposure to the work of any developers that shares his PHP work in the site.

I don't know many other sites that help Open Source developers keeping so many of their users so closely up to date.

I don't know either if you develop and share your work as Open Source. I am sure if you would develop Open Source projects, you would appreciate the service provided by the site.

Now, as developer of the site, I must tell you that if you do not like advertising, I do not like it better.

Unfortunately it is a necessary burden to expose the users to the site advertising. If it were not for that, the site would have been closed a long time ago, like with all those .com sites that died because their owners missed the fact that it is necessary to generate enough revenue to pay for the site hosting, bandwidth and all the people involved in keeping a busy like this up and running.

Fortunately, soon there will be an alternative to all those that do not want to put up with the advertising. There is a package of premium services being developed to be offered exclusively to subscribers that want to adhere for a small monthly fee (say USD $5 or so).

Among other interesting new services (http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/47-Planned-PHP-Classes-paid-services-and-Content-site-revenue-tips.html) have been announced in the site blog, premium subscribers will be able access the site without any advertising, have a better site search, improved AJAX based user interface, etc..

These services have been developed very slowly because the current site revenue is not enough to pay for additional staff.

Meanwhile there are already a few beta testers evaluating the new services. If you are interested, you may submit a request to become a beta tester, as it has been announce here (http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/51-PHPClasses-20-Beta-AJAX-XMLHttpRequest-x-IFrame.html).

It is impossible to please everybody, but at least I try to please the users that really care about the site and want to benefit from thousands of classes shared by hundreds of developers.

I hope you understand.

19 Jul 2006 04:14 rainer

Project hosting
This project, like all others from this author, is hosted at phpclasses.org, an absolutely obnoxious site which apparently only exists to throw as much advertising as possible towards its users. Apart from frequent pop-up windows and redirects, they require subscription for downloading, openly announce that they will bombard every subscriber with spam ('newsletters', as they call it), and make an extra effort to prevent subscriptions with a disposable address from spamgourmet.com. Thankfully, they don't know all domains for spamgourmet.

16 Jul 2006 12:10 mlemos

Re: install docs?
The reference manual (http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/file/36.html) is the first file in the package files listing.

You may also want to take a look at the example scripts . Those are commented and demonstrate practically all the class features.

For further support questions, I recommend that you use the package support forum (http://www.phpclasses.org/discuss/package/1/).

16 Jul 2006 10:07 k1mgy

install docs?
Maybe I'm blind, but I cannot seem to find any readme or setup docs for this excellent set of classes.

I've installed metabase nicely and it works great, and would like to give this one a go.

14 Jan 2006 17:26 mlemos

Re: A great developer-friendly class
Thank you for your message. It was already replied in the class mailing list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forms-dev/message/310).

11 Jan 2006 20:07 powerobject

A great developer-friendly class
Oops! My earlier message got garbled and lost the <br>'s.

Hi Manuel,

Simply a 'great' class - very thorough and exhaustive to the detail although one may not use each and every function from its API but who knows? When you need a feature and you know it is there, it feels good and that's what makes a software a success. Excellent and consistent coding style. A developer-friendly class in that it does client-side as well as server-side validations with a single configuration of the inputs whereas other classes such as SmartyValidate, FormCat, etc. do either client-side or server-side validations but not both. And to know it is over 5 years old means it is almost bullet-proof. Includes most features that developers look forward to using in their day-to-day coding which shows the author's experience-level.

Here are a few suggestions:

Although descriptive, the title of the class is long and too generic: Forms generation and validation. How about branding it with a short name (no offense intended as the class itself rocks!)? Such as 'PHORM' or 'DynaForm' or 'DynaGen' or 'DynaValid' or 'PFGV' or 'FGV' or something suitable (however, I'm not aware of existing trademarks). Branding makes a product more popular and a domestic name.

Considering its 3500+ lines of code size, how does the class perform? Is this class being used on any large/high-traffic/high-availability websites? If not, is it possible to dish out a 'Lite' version skimping out some fat? There are so many features in this class such as 'accessibility_tab_index', etc. that every site may not use. On the other hand, support for Smarty is refreshing and very much desirable to be retained.

Is there a way to implement features to configure changing the colors of the field-labels and flashing a dialog with a consolidated message for 'all' the errors (with an optional Beep) on the form? It may be possible with some plugin/custom functions but would be ideal to implement them within the class. Here is an example:

http://www.softcomplex.com/products/tigra_form_validator/registration_form_validation.html

Date fields (dropdowns):

Prefer international format: [Year] [Month] [Day] (or is there a way to shuffle them depending on the locale?)

With the above arrangement, the class can effectively and dynamically filter the number of days in a month based on the Year and Month selection. For instance, Feb (28), Leap Year (29), Sep (30) and Dec (31). This helps in reducing lame data-entry errors as the code is self-correcting and self-validating.

Date Range: In case of two date fields for a range of dates such as Date of Arrival and Date of Departure (one >= the other), it would be thrilling to have the second date field automatically filtering out the invalid Years/Months/Days based on the Year/Month/Day selection in the first date. For instance:

A person arrives on 2000/3/15 and departs on 2000/3/25. When the user chooses the first date field as 2000/3/15, the Years in the second date field should show only years that are >= 2000. Once the user selects 2000 in the second date field, the Months dropdown should show only values >= 3; once the user selects 3 for the month in the second date field, the Days dropdown should show only days >= 15 as it doesn't make sense for someone to arrive after he/she departed (well, technically). Users would get a kick out of such interface for it being intuitive, intelligent and user-friendly which they experienced only in older client/server apps. This feature would be in addition to the equality (password) and difference (reminder) features. Is this something possible with Connect()/linked-select?

Reserved Words: Some vars (error, form, etc) seem to be conflicting with the reserved words of other interfaces such as Flash, Flex, etc. should the developer want to pass values to those interfaces instead of HTML.

ResubmitConfirmMessage: Incorporate a feature to disable the Submit button 'OnSubmit' as default.

Email Validation: Are the validations/regex in this class adequate? See:

http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/php/email-address-validation

http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/php/email-address-validation/comments

Thanks much and keep up the good work...

---

PowerObject!

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