Articles / Ad-free day on 09/11

Ad-free day on 09/11

On September 11, 2002 OSDN and all of its affiliated Web sites will host an entire day free of advertising. We will do this in remembrance of September 11, 2001 as a tribute to all of the heroes and victims of that tragic day. We will resume all advertising at 12:01 US EDT on September 12. OSDN would like to thank our customers for supporting us in this action.

Most Sincerely,

Richard French
General Manager
OSDN

RSS Recent comments

10 Sep 2002 13:18 Shak

A Worthwhile Gesture
I fully support this and congratulate freshmeat for their understanding and this gesture on a very tragic day. RIP the victims of the 9-11 attacks

10 Sep 2002 13:31 dmnthia

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
What about all the innocent blood that has been spilled by the USA because of the will of vengeance?
Will you make a banner for them?
RIP the victims of the 9-11 attacks and RIP all the innocent people that has been murdered because of that.

10 Sep 2002 13:39 cnbishop

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture - Let's do it some more

1 Jan 2001 - 20,000 people in India die in an Earthquake. Hiroshima. Nagasaki.

No banner-free day? Are we so much more important that we get a no-banner day and they don't?

Let's try not to lose sight of the world beyond our doorstep.

10 Sep 2002 13:41 romanofski

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture

> What about all the innocent blood that
> has been spilled by the USA because of
> the will of vengeance?
> Will you make a banner for them?
> RIP the victims of the 9-11 attacks and
> RIP all the innocent people that has
> been murdered because of that.

yeah.. i completely agree with your comment.

10 Sep 2002 15:01 ketter

Hmmmpff...
I guess that most of the people in the US never got this close to a terrorist attackt.. it has always been a show on tv.. a "far from your bed show" as you call it in Holland. (ver van je bed show).

Non the less, I support this gesture.. though.. from this day on.. will you be removing banners whenever there is a terrorist strike on any country ?

10 Sep 2002 16:00 iburger

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture - Let's do it some more

>
> Let's try not to lose sight of the world
> beyond our doorstep.

I agree. What happened on September 11th was terrible, but lets not forget that equally bad things happen all over the world all the time.

It is refreshing to see an American who knows that a world exists beyond America :-)

This message was posted from South Africa.
The Country, not the region.
No, Zimbabwe is not one of our provinces.
Yes, we do have electricity and Computers.
No, we don't have Lions roaming the streets.

10 Sep 2002 16:15 murty

Re: ad-free years
We can never forget what happened on 9/11. It was very tragic and moving. I decided to never click on banners for as many years as I remember 9/11

10 Sep 2002 16:20 themaniac

What does not having banners accomplish?
I don't see how not having advertising or banners translates to honouring anyone.

10 Sep 2002 16:37 mojotooth

Re: What does not having banners accomplish?

> I don't see how not having advertising
> or banners translates to honouring
> anyone.

It means we've foresworn the greedy pursuit of cash for a whole 24 hours in honor of those who died.

10 Sep 2002 16:38 eytsec

Re: What does not having banners accomplish?

> I don't see how not having advertising
> or banners translates to honouring
> anyone.

I agree with you.

I'd prefer they'd donate all the publicity profits to an association of the 11th september's victims ...

10 Sep 2002 16:40 eytsec

Re: What does not having banners accomplish?
They did the 11th september to "foresworn the greedy pursuit of cash" too ...

10 Sep 2002 16:41 mhisani

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
Also.. Europe goes through major flooding . causing death. homelessness and the US ignores it. And the US have set up many funds to help victims of Sept 11 and havent help europe with the floods... . So will there be a ad free day for the european floods considering the US isnt helping pollution and making it worse :(

Its a major shame it happened, but why ignore other world disasters.

The world consists of more than the US

I dont mean to rant. But an adfree day isnt a good idea unless your going to do it for other major disasters

Im sorry.

>
> % What about all the innocent blood
> that
> % has been spilled by the USA because
> of
> % the will of vengeance?
> % Will you make a banner for them?
> % RIP the victims of the 9-11 attacks
> and
> % RIP all the innocent people that has
> % been murdered because of that.
>
>
> yeah.. i completely agree with your
> comment.
>

10 Sep 2002 17:09 cshowa1ter

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
I have a hard time comparing acts of god such as flooding and earthquakes to the tragic meticulously planned out events that happened last year.

Cheers to OSDN. It is very much a worthwhile gesture to show that some companies do actually care about humanity over profit.
The US has many charitable causes set up to help people all over the world. Who provides a majority of cleanup, food, aid? THE USA!
When I was in the Navy, I helped bring not only US Citizens but philipino natives to safety when a Volcano erupted and displaced thousands.
I did'nt see germany, france, japan or any other country opening up their checkbook or even their hearts when our country lost so many innocent lives

Also, I won't say that Usama started this by funding/masterminding the attacks last sept, this dispute has been ongoing for centuries and will continue for centuries more, or until someone decides to go nuclear. And since I'm on the subject of Usama, the koran (as does the Bible) states an "eye for an eye". Simply, what you do to me, I'll give back to you.

just my $.2
-c

> Also.. Europe goes through major
> flooding . causing death. homelessness
> and the US ignores it. And the US have
> set up many funds to help victims of
> Sept 11 and havent help europe with the
> floods... . So will there be a ad free
> day for the european floods considering
> the US isnt helping pollution and making
> it worse :(
>
> Its a major shame it happened, but why
> ignore other world disasters.
>
> The world consists of more than the US
>
>
> I dont mean to rant. But an adfree day
> isnt a good idea unless your going to do
> it for other major disasters
>
> Im sorry.
>
> %
> % % What about all the innocent blood
> % that
> % % has been spilled by the USA because
> % of
> % % the will of vengeance?
> % % Will you make a banner for them?
> % % RIP the victims of the 9-11 attacks
> % and
> % % RIP all the innocent people that
> has
> % % been murdered because of that.
> %
> %
> % yeah.. i completely agree with your
> % comment.
> %
>
>
>

10 Sep 2002 17:10 vrih

Re: What does not having banners accomplish?

>
> I'd prefer they'd donate all the
> publicity profits to an association of
> the 11th september's victims ...
>
>

Seems to me that too many people have got rich out of September 11th already without us donating to associated charity groups

10 Sep 2002 17:14 evanz784

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
Amen....very well said. Cheers to OSDN.

10 Sep 2002 17:52 Jebediah

Less Traffic
If nothing else this ought to reduce the amount of congestion on the net. Seeing as how more people are going to be home surfing instead of going to thier favorite large landmark.

10 Sep 2002 18:15 johannesrichter

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
An eye for an eye only ends us making the whole world blind. -- Mahatma Ghandi

..without further comments...

10 Sep 2002 18:30 jgestiot

What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere?
What makes the 3000+ people who died on Sept 11 more important that those who die all the time at the hand of terror? Why should they be honored and not others? What did the world do when 800,000 people were slaughtered in Rwanda?

Far more than 3000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel despite United Nations resolutions demanding that they get out of land that is not theirs. If you had another country in your backyard killing your children, wouldn't you be angry too? Take the time to browse arab sites who offer english translation to their articles and see what the justification for the sept 11 attack was. It doesn't excuse it but it sure puts it in perspective.

If you are going to politicize this site, tell the whole story. Sept 11 is about America finally getting screwed after decades of screwing everybody else. Get with it and read what Noam Chomsky has to say about Sept 11. The greatest terrorist in the world is the USA. That's a fact.

10 Sep 2002 18:45 mashy

banner free??
What a better way to show our Americanism than by
removing the one thing that distinguishes us as
Americans: competitive commercial advertising

You should be shoving ads in our faces otherwise you're
just contributing to a breakdown of American values.

10 Sep 2002 18:57 canoramix

Thanks to Bin Laden
Thanks to Bin Laden, at least during one day, several sites I visit every day will not have any ads.

Now, I have one good reason to celebrate September 11th: Internet without ads :-)

10 Sep 2002 19:04 eytsec

Re: What does not having banners accomplish?
So we don't have to do anything...

10 Sep 2002 19:39 pbrufal

Nobody remembers Spain?
In Spain we are suffering terrorism more than 30 years. I feel sad for the people who died on september 11th, but I feel infinitely sad for the Spanish people who died or are injured by ETA terrorists. What is the difference between the American and the Spanish people?. The world is not only USA...

Sorry if somebody is offended with this message.

10 Sep 2002 20:03 crazney

What??!?

This is stupid, there is no rememberanec for those who
die in
other tragic events.

Guys, take S11 in perspecitve. What does it matter,
3021
people died in those attacks.. Thats nothing.
34,000
children die daily from hunger and disease. Who gives
these kids banner adds?.

I for one will not be visiting any OSDN sites for the next
7
days as a result of this blind, ignorant and selfish action.

10 Sep 2002 20:21 unixman

simply lame
this is the most lame remembrance ever. cheers for osdn? certainly not. what a load of crap!

also my .02.

10 Sep 2002 20:37 kianusch

Next Add-Free Day
I assume the next for the next add-free day will in commemoration of the upcoming killing of innocent Iraqi people by the Bush administration.

10 Sep 2002 22:19 coscorrosa

Well, if you're going to do it...
Then don't announce it, just do it!

Announcing in such a public fashion that you're going to remove advertising for a day is the equivalent to beating people over the head with a club and screaming, "Hey, look at us, we're sensitive!"

Apparently, just removing the advertising for a day isn't enough, you need to tell everybody about it in order to gain good PR. Essentially, then, you are advertising - ironic, isn't it?

While you're in the mood for providing us information, why not tell us why other human tragedies, many of which there were more lives lost than the tragedy one year ago, don't warrant this kind of remembrance.

Would it have anything to do with the fact that the value gained in PR wouldn't exceed the revenues generated by advertising (in all cases except this one)?

10 Sep 2002 22:26 Tonetheman

Good deal
I think it is nice that you do something. Pretty much everyone is going to do something in rememberance of that day, even if it is just pausing to think about it.

The rest of the morons on this site should just get over themselves. I am not sure where OSDN is based but I would have to think it is somewhere in America. For those who wish to go else where or just bitch about their own problems do it somewhere else.

If your country is so great then go start your own Freshmeat/OSDN site in that country... then you too can scream about the injustices of your own country on that site.

This is America get used to it.

10 Sep 2002 22:31 AstroDrabb

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

> What makes the 3000+ people who died on
> Sept 11 more important that those who
> die all the time at the hand of terror?
> Why should they be honored and not
> others? What did the world do when
> 800,000 people were slaughtered in
> Rwanda?
>
> Far more than 3000 Palestinians have
> been killed by Israel despite United
> Nations resolutions demanding that they
> get out of land that is not theirs. If
> you had another country in your backyard
> killing your children, wouldn't you be
> angry too? Take the time to browse arab
> sites who offer english translation to
> their articles and see what the
> justification for the sept 11 attack
> was. It doesn't excuse it but it sure
> puts it in perspective.
>
> If you are going to politicize this
> site, tell the whole story. Sept 11 is
> about America finally getting screwed
> after decades of screwing everybody
> else. Get with it and read what Noam
> Chomsky has to say about Sept 11. The
> greatest terrorist in the world is the
> USA. That's a fact.

You are a BIG idiot. The arab people are getting what they deserve. America has not screwed anyone. If America doesn't do anything to help, people cry "Why isn't America helping us?". If we do help, people cry "Why is America here". Don't step on America's toes and not expect
a retaliation. Your statement about another country in your back yard killing your children and women is a load of bunk. That land belongs to the people of Israel. God gave it to HIS PEOPLE. I am a Christian and I know that GOD gave this land to HIS people, so why don't ou Muslims? You Muslims whine and cry how you are peacfull, yet you are always killing the Israli people. You treat your women like dirt and slaughter them. Being a former Marine I am ready to fight for the USA at the drop of a hat. And also for our friends such as England, Israel, Japan, Ireland, Germany, etc, etc. And as far as your whinning about "What did the world do when 800,000 people were slaughtered in Rwanda?" OSDN is an American Company!
So it is only logical that they would want to honour an American tragedy. I think ANY human death is a tragedy. I am sad over the 800,000 people of Rwanda, and even your people that have lost their lives. However, don't attack America and not expect to "Awaken a sleeping giant".

I for one am proud of OSDN for making a financial sacrifice in remembrance of 9/11.

Jim

10 Sep 2002 22:34 xjicex

I was going to...

I read this and gawked with disgust. I was going to share my feelings but, have been relinquished of my duty as a humanitarian after reading how many people agree that this
honors nothing but how big the blinders are on my fellow Americans.

10 Sep 2002 22:59 AstroDrabb

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture

> Also.. Europe goes through major
> flooding . causing death. homelessness
> and the US ignores it. And the US have
> set up many funds to help victims of
> Sept 11 and havent help europe with the
> floods... . So will there be a ad free
> day for the european floods considering
> the US isnt helping pollution and making
> it worse :(

What are you talking about? The USA sends Billions (US) to other countries in their time of need. American has tons of homeless, Earthquakes, flodding, drought, fires, etc, etc. When has YOUR country ever helped us out? You whine that the USA should help you, but who helps the USA? What country out there has sent in any money to help the USA for 9/11? Or when we have earthquakes, floods, etc? None! Also, Europe is doing it's share of polluting as well!

> The world consists of more than the US

I agree. The world has many other wonderfull cultures. It just seems that everyone wants help from the USA but not return any help back to us.

10 Sep 2002 23:24 crazney

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

Heh, your comment, which totally lacks any coherency or
logic, amuses me.

America has always done things that suites them. Never
anything to help anyone else - yet they have called for the
world to help them in their "war on terror".

America doesnt remember the victims of the Atom Bomb
THEY dropped on Japan - just to make a point. The
war
was already over, Japan was destroyed.. Yet America had to
kill civilians just to show off.. America doesnt remember the
victims of American owned capitalist sweatshops. America
doesnt remember the victims of drought and flooding caused
by global warming (most of which is a result of pollution
generated in the US)..

You say that OSDN is making a financial sacrifice on
9/11?
Hah, my ass they are. OSDN just see a cheap way to become
a
'better commercial citizen', gain more customers and such..
And "sacrificing" a days worth of advertising, no worries to
them.

I hope, when America declares war on Iraq
that you go to fight. I hope that you see first hand the pain
and suffering that America's war causes others.

11 Sep 2002 00:59 AstroDrabb

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

> Heh, your comment, which totally lacks
> any coherency or
> logic, amuses me.
> America has always done things that
> suites them. Never
> anything to help anyone else - yet they
> have called for the
> world to help them in their "war on
> terror".
> America doesnt remember the victims of
> the Atom Bomb
> THEY dropped on Japan - just to make a
> point. The
> war
> was already over, Japan was destroyed..
> Yet America had to
> kill civilians just to show off..
> America doesnt remember the
> victims of American owned capitalist
> sweatshops. America
> doesnt remember the victims of drought
> and flooding caused
> by global warming (most of which is a
> result of pollution
> generated in the US)..
> You say that OSDN is making a financial
> sacrifice on
> 9/11?
> Hah, my ass they are. OSDN just see a
> cheap way to become
> a
> 'better commercial citizen', gain more
> customers and such..
> And "sacrificing" a days worth of
> advertising, no worries to
> them.
> I hope, when America declares war on
> Iraq
> that you go to fight. I hope that you
> see first hand the pain
> and suffering that America's war causes
> others.

YOUR comments "lack coherency". You really need to go back to grade school and get an education in history, especially American history. Japan came and attacked us. We were not in the war at the time. Japan started the fight and drew the USA into WWII. Japan would NOT surrender the A-Bomb was what made Japan surrender. While the bomb may have taken lives, it saved many more lives that would have been lost if the war continued. You should really do some research before you open your un-educated mouth. Go search for satelite photos or information on pollution. America does cause some, however, there are MANY other countries that contribute just as much. Europe is just as bad at pollution. Oh, by the way, what great country are YOU from?

"I hope that you see first hand the pain and suffering that America's war causes others."

What about the pain and suffering caused to all the Americans from 9/11? All the children left without mothers and fathers? All the innocent people who just got up that day to go to work and are now dead. Arab's are just mad at the USA because we are on the side of Israel. So they plotted to attack us. Well, they will get what is comming to them! And believe me, if my country calls on me again, I will be there with my M-16 to fight for our freedom.

11 Sep 2002 02:54 srz16

This just reminds me why we are this way....
You ungrateful faggots... Has the camel f*cking / soap free lifestyle destroyed your reasoning so much? Last I checked this is freshmeat.net not freshmeat.iq or even freshmeat.es. They don't owe you sh*t. Don't like it? Not fair? Then don't come here!Did you look at Google, or Yahoo, etc. etc.?? You gonna b*tch about them too? (Damn American companies paying respect to their own country!) Just an idea, but why not get your own damn sites to worry about yourselves?To the Spanish idiot.... did you ever think that maybe you wouldn't have had to deal with it for 30 years if you guys got some balls and did something about it? Boo F*cking Hoo Hoo for you, right? We're always supposed to give a sh*t about you, but honestly, tell me when the last time someone other than Australlia, or England has helped us with something more than words?And logically, do you really want us to stop polluting? If we find clean ways of doing things, we'll have no need for a certain part of the world anymore, and would be much less reserved in the disposal of something that's lost it's usefullness.... I don't really care for him, but I hope Bush Jr. makes peace with his creator and rains the fires of hell down on you pricks.

11 Sep 2002 02:55 srz16

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....
Also to OSDN, Thank You!

11 Sep 2002 02:56 srz16

Re: Good deal
Couldn't have said it better!

11 Sep 2002 03:05 srz16

Re: Well, if you're going to do it...

> While you're in the mood for providing
> us information, why not tell us why
> other human tragedies, many of which
> there were more lives lost than the
> tragedy one year ago, don't warrant this
> kind of remembrance.

They do, they actually warrant more rememberance. So much more that a simple banner and rememberance page is not sufficient. They deserve a whole site. Go make one. Somewhere else.

11 Sep 2002 03:06 chakie

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

%And
> logically, do you really want us to stop
> polluting?

Of course. Your pollution affects me, my children and everyone else in the world. Logical, isn't it?

%I don't really care for
> him, but I hope Bush Jr. makes peace
> with his creator and rains the fires of
> hell down on you pricks.

Gee, you sound mature. The solution isn't always to bomb others, sometimes stuff can be solved though negotiations. Hmm, thinking about it, all of Bush's foreign politics have been about bombing this and that "Axis of Evil".

11 Sep 2002 03:12 srz16

Re: Next Add-Free Day

> I assume the next for the next add-free
> day will in commemoration of the
> upcoming killing of innocent Iraqi
> people by the Bush administration.
>

We can always hope so, right?

OR, the Iraqi's could look at the little
piece of paper they signed after we
kicked their ass the first time, and
follow the rules like a good honest
Muslim.

But hey, another Ad-Free Day
sounds good to me!

11 Sep 2002 03:24 srz16

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> Of course. Your pollution affects me, my
> children and everyone else in the world.
> Logical, isn't it?

So I assume you're writing this on a
solar powered computer?

> Gee, you sound mature. The solution
> isn't always to bomb others, sometimes
> stuff can be solved though negotiations.
> Hmm, thinking about it, all of Bush's
> foreign politics have been about bombing
> this and that "Axis of Evil".

Gee you sound like a vagina. I'm assuming
you're talking about a potential bombing
of Iraq. Tell me, why on earth should
we stop and try to understand WTF is
going on in Sadams head? Did he not
surrender in '91? Did he not sign
something basically saying "I Lose and
have to follow your rules, or else you'll
keep kicking my ass"? The only reason
people are stopping to think now is
because we didn't finish the job in the
first place.

11 Sep 2002 05:42 Avatar totalaccess

Freedom
Being from a foriegn country myself (Germany) and raised here for the past 30 plus years in my life, I have enjoyed the comfort, and freedom of the US daily. On 9-11-2001 I lost friends in that tragic event and America grew stronger. We take for granted the freedoms we have , and the preverse societies out there who want to kill , and maim for religious purposes. More people have died over religious battles than all the wars, DWIs put togther. Today I take time to remember not just those who have left this place, but what they stand for: my freedom. To all the friends and family members of loss, my heart goes out in prayer, that you find peace. No one person or one thing can replace the losses in our lives, and the older we get the more losses we live with every day. I am proud to call the USA my home , and even prouder that we stood our ground and fight back for our freedom.

11 Sep 2002 06:58 pbrufal

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

%To
> the Spanish idiot.... did you ever think
> that maybe you wouldn't have had to deal
> with it for 30 years if you guys got
> some balls and did something about it?

Out government are doing all the possible. We don't have capital punishment , we respect the human rights, not like the USA government.

11 Sep 2002 07:42 srz16

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> Out government are doing all the
> possible. We don't have capital
> punishment , we respect the human
> rights, not like the USA government.

I'm not aware of the details in Spain, but I would hope your country would take action (even if lethal) against those who want to harm it's people. While I don't fully agree with capital punishment, I hold no compasion for those who would do such horrible things. Let's hope it never affects either of our families or loved ones, but if by chance it does, would you blame me for getting justice? I wouldn't blame you.

11 Sep 2002 08:04 tris

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
As a life long Londoner, I'd just like to thank you for expressing your support for the Irish struggle, and like to thank your people for funding the Irish struggle, and for the wonderful job they did of remodelling london, of destroying northern ireland and of excouraging peace, and the sale of class A drugs. I'd like to thank you for sheltering known terrorists and for refusing to extradite men found guilty in a court of law. We here have so much to thank you for.

Perhaps when your president has finished destroying the middle-east he might turn to that other great supporter of terrorism and opression, the good old US of A.

And on the subject of this no-ad day, what sense does it make? How exactly is forgoing profit an act of remebrance? Write up an editorial, maybe even take down the whole site for a day, but removing banner ads (and, incidentally, replacing it with something that could be mistaken for the black flag of islam with that date on it!!!)
hardly seems fitting.

11 Sep 2002 08:45 iburger

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture

> helps the USA? What country out there
> has sent in any money to help the USA
> for 9/11? Or when we have earthquakes,

Can I just mention that South Africa sent people over both during the flood in India and on 9/11. Well, it was on the local news so I figure it must be true.

11 Sep 2002 09:07 AstroDrabb

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

> As a life long Londoner, I'd just like
> to thank you for expressing your support
> for the Irish struggle, and like to
> thank your people for funding the Irish
> struggle, and for the wonderful job they
> did of remodelling london, of destroying
> northern ireland and of excouraging
> peace, and the sale of class A drugs.
> I'd like to thank you for sheltering
> known terrorists and for refusing to
> extradite men found guilty in a court of
> law. We here have so much to thank you
> for.
>
> Perhaps when your president has finished
> destroying the middle-east he might turn
> to that other great supporter of
> terrorism and opression, the good old US
> of A.
>

What the hell are you talking about? What know terrorists does the USA harbor? England is far from perfect when it comes to drugs. YOUR government allows registerd heroin addicts. Basically your government allows people to go to a drug/RX store and get heroin! Every nation has its problems with drugs. Afhganistan has the largest percent of opium addicts per capita in the world. Also, Europe in general has a far mor liberal policy on drugs and booze then the USA does.

YOUR government is right by the side of USA in our attack on terrorism and the middle east. Perhaps you should rephrase your comment and thank the USA and England for destroying the middle east. The USA did not go to the middle east and start trouble. The middle east brought trouble to us, and now they are crying about the retaliation. What hippocrits.

If you are going to make comments, at least make them based on facts and not the fantasy world you live in.

You said "that other great supporter of terrorism and opression, the good old US of A".

Please back up your statement with facts. What terrorism do we support? What opression do we give? The USA goes around the world to help other countries in their struggles to overcome opression and our men die to help bring freedom to other nations.

11 Sep 2002 09:57 Lovecraft

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture

>
>
> What are you talking about? The USA
> sends Billions (US) to other countries
> in their time of need. American has
> tons of homeless, Earthquakes, flodding,
> drought, fires, etc, etc. When has YOUR
> country ever helped us out? You whine
> that the USA should help you, but who
> helps the USA? What country out there
> has sent in any money to help the USA
> for 9/11? Or when we have earthquakes,
> floods, etc? None! Also, Europe is
> doing it's share of polluting as well!
>

Actually Canada certainly sent both money and people to help with the 9/11 relief as well as infantry to help with the campaign in Afghanistan.

11 Sep 2002 09:58 electronf

Patriotism...
Maybe I am wrong, but aren't we all humans and then countrymen second...

Because strip away the country and all that is left is the human...

Don't generalise there are as many decent Muslim Folk as decent Americans.

Fundamentalists christians are just as bad as Fundamentalist Muslims...

11 Sep 2002 10:21 johannesrichter

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
Please think about it once again. The US are on of the richest if not the richest country in the world. Guess where they get this money from.

I am not trying to say anything near like "the victims of these attacks are fucking capitalists and don't deserve any help or grief", but it is a fact that the US is certainly not a country who needs more money, even if 3000 or 4000 families lost a member and a big house is destroyed.

11 Sep 2002 10:24 tris

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
% Please back up your statement with
> facts. What terrorism do we support?
> What opression do we give? The USA goes
> around the world to help other countries
> in their struggles to overcome opression
> and our men die to help bring freedom to
> other nations.

Ill keep this brief, there is very little point in trying to inform you. The major funding for the IRA comes from the
US, specifically it comes from Boston, whose people have spent a great deal of time harbouring terrorists. The same thing can be said for ETA in various other regions of the US. Your governemtn conspired to assasinate the democratically elected leader of Iran to protect your oil interests. You've supported the mujahadeen in afghanistan (yes, the ones that became the taliban and al-quaeda), you actively support pakistans' military dictatorship, Israeli presence in the occupied territories, Pinochet in Chile, even Saddam until he tried to take kkuwait. Not to mention the bay of pigs debacle.

I want to state clearly at this point that this is not meant to detract in any way from the horror of what happened in New York. But your original post practically support ethnic clensing of arabs and seemed to imply that America has no blood on its hands, which is not true, not even remotely.
You have mastered the art of the 'proxy-war', and what is that except exportation of terrorism?

11 Sep 2002 10:25 bleemz

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
% America has always done things that
> suites them. Never
> anything to help anyone else - yet they
> have called for the
> world to help them in their "war on
> terror".
*Ahem*

You are aware that the United States has never initiated a war, correct? WWI,WWII,Vietnam, Korea and yes even the Persian Gulf. All conflicts where our help was requested. You can argue all day long, but then history doesn't lie.

> America doesnt remember the victims of
> the Atom Bomb
> THEY dropped on Japan - just to make a
> point.

Actually, your half wrong. For the most part, most americans don't remember that, I'll grant you that. Of course, one could argue that it was justified, because we were at war, and Japan killed US civillians without a second thought, which is what initiated the war between us and japan. Fortunately, and rather soon after the big one, we began to aid Japan in rebuilding, and now they depend on us and our economy.

> America doesnt remember the
> victims of American owned capitalist
> sweatshops.

Small fact: More than half the 'capitalists' in America, aren't American by birth, and were wealthy before they came here.

%America
> doesnt remember the victims of drought
> and flooding caused
> by global warming (most of which is a
> result of pollution
> generated in the US)..

You mean like Somolia, Brazil, Chile, Haiti, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and more than 100 more countries which the US has givin aid to in the past? Remember Chernobyl? During the Cold War, and we still gave them aid. Oh, not to mention we're responsible for most of the international laws banning toxic chemical dumping. Earth Day ring a bell, yah, we started that.

> You say that OSDN is making a financial
> sacrifice on
> 9/11?
> Hah, my ass they are. OSDN just see a
> cheap way to become
> a
> 'better commercial citizen', gain more
> customers and such..
> And "sacrificing" a days worth of
> advertising, no worries to
> them.

Agreed, because this is symbolic, if they really wanted to show emotion they would have left the ads but donated the revenue.

> I hope, when America declares war on
> Iraq
> that you go to fight. I hope that you
> see first hand the pain
> and suffering that America's war causes
> others.

I'm afraid your mistaken again, we aren't the reason Iraq is a third world country, you can blame their leadership for that. We have offered aid to the Iraqi people in the past, and we still do actually. So, uh, care to try stating anything else you know nothing about?

11 Sep 2002 10:30 dwm

Re: Patriotism...

[snip]
>
> Fundamentalists christians are just as
> bad as Fundamentalist Muslims...
>
>

Yeah, just look at how many fundamentalist Christians fly airplanes full of people into buildings full of people. Yep, no difference there at all.

11 Sep 2002 10:42 mmee

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
Man, you should check your news source. Every single European country sent help for 9/11 - yes, Easterm European countries and Russia too.

Now, during recent floods, USA sent about $50K for Red Cross in four countries as help.

Also, Europe has much stricter regulations wrt pollution, from small-scale waste to industrial pollution. Heck, even China agrees with Kyoto negotiations. USA doesn't.

Judging from your comments, you should argue more calmly and support your arguments.

11 Sep 2002 10:44 bleemz

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture - Let's do it some more

>
> 1 Jan 2001 - 20,000 people in India die
> in an Earthquake.
J
anuary 26th actually, and the US was the first to offer aid and 5 million in funds. Our Soldiers were there with medical aid and helping to setup tent cities.

Hiroshima.
> Nagasaki.
>
> No banner-free day? Are we so much more
> important that we get a no-banner day
> and they don't?
>
> Let's try not to lose sight of the world
> beyond our doorstep.

Indeed, and I'm not picking a fight, just thought I'd respond to that.

11 Sep 2002 10:57 Impetus

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture

> Also.. Europe goes through major
> flooding . causing death. homelessness
> and the US ignores it. And the US have
> set up many funds to help victims of
> Sept 11 and havent help europe with the
> floods... . So will there be a ad free
> day for the european floods considering
> the US isnt helping pollution and making
> it worse :(
>
> Its a major shame it happened, but why
> ignore other world disasters.
>
> The world consists of more than the US
>
>
> I dont mean to rant. But an adfree day
> isnt a good idea unless your going to do
> it for other major disasters
>
> Im sorry.
>
> %
> % % What about all the innocent blood
> % that
> % % has been spilled by the USA because
> % of
> % % the will of vengeance?
> % % Will you make a banner for them?
> % % RIP the victims of the 9-11 attacks
> % and
> % % RIP all the innocent people that
> has
> % % been murdered because of that.
> %
> %
> % yeah.. i completely agree with your
> % comment.
> %
>
>
>

What the hell. How about you mind your damn business and stop getting in ours about WHAT WE CAN HONOR. When people die in your country you can honor them too. We don't care if you don't appreciate it so get off our asses you damn hypocrites. Better yet, go run in the street, the world could use one less asshole!

11 Sep 2002 10:58 kungfo0

Re: Patriotism...

>
> [snip]
> %
> % Fundamentalists christians are just
> as
> % bad as Fundamentalist Muslims...
> %
> %
>

>
> Yeah, just look at how many
> fundamentalist Christians fly airplanes
> full of people into buildings full of
> people. Yep, no difference there at all.

No but I've read about enough of them bombing and shooting abortion clinics over the years.

11 Sep 2002 11:08 electronf

Re: Patriotism...

>
> [snip]

>
> Yeah, just look at how many
> fundamentalist Christians fly airplanes
> full of people into buildings full of
> people. Yep, no difference there at all.

I am not a Muslim or a Christian, although I do come from a predominantly christian country. I was not comparing methods of murder, I was comparing the end result. I am saying that there is evil on both sides of the fence. Be careful not to bring everyone of a particular persuasion down because of a minority.. I doubt very much that most christians would like to be compared to people who blow up abortion clinics, slay Muslims etc.

Let's get this straight - you should go after Osame because he is a terrorist, not because he is a Muslim. You should go after Saddam because he is a genocidal meglomaniac, not because he is Arab or a Muslim.

The same goes for the other side of the argument, if you are a Muslim, don immediately presume that I hate you because I come from a christian country.

Get it???

11 Sep 2002 11:36 dakoda

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
% An eye for an eye only ends us making
> the whole world blind. -- Mahatma
> Ghandi
>
> ..without further comments...

Beautiful. This clips the whole discussion. now if only people were rational enough to understand it once in a while :)

-Dakoda

11 Sep 2002 12:05 AstroDrabb

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

>
> Ill keep this brief, there is very
> little point in trying to inform you.
> The major funding for the IRA comes from
> the
> US, specifically it comes from Boston,
> whose people have spent a great deal of
> time harbouring terrorists. The same
> thing can be said for ETA in various
> other regions of the US. Your governemtn
> conspired to assasinate the
> democratically elected leader of Iran to
> protect your oil interests. You've
> supported the mujahadeen in afghanistan
> (yes, the ones that became the taliban
> and al-quaeda), you actively support
> pakistans' military dictatorship,
> Israeli presence in the occupied
> territories, Pinochet in Chile, even
> Saddam until he tried to take kkuwait.
> Not to mention the bay of pigs debacle.
>
> I want to state clearly at this point
> that this is not meant to detract in any
> way from the horror of what happened in
> New York. But your original post
> practically support ethnic clensing of
> arabs and seemed to imply that America
> has no blood on its hands, which is not
> true, not even remotely.
> You have mastered the art of the
> 'proxy-war', and what is that except
> exportation of terrorism?
>
>

Your logic is severely flawed. Blaming the USA for any money that comes from Boston, is like blaming everyone in South America for the tons of cacaine that is imported into America from there. I personally don't want to see the arab race destroyed. They are an important part of our world and have a right to live just as you or I do.

I want to see the Taliban destroyed. They are terrorists and bring oppression to the arab people, killing women and denying them a right to an education. How is that fair to those arab women who once were allowed schooling and when the taliban came into power are now denied that right? Every nation has blood on it's hands. To single out the USA and be blind to your own nations errors is just wrong. We will always have blood shed in the world because people do not want to look at one another as humans, but rather as races. Just as you have done by attacking the USA and it's people and being blind to the errors of your nation. Most people take pride in their heritage and when you start attacking their heritage or their nation, you are asking for trouble.

11 Sep 2002 12:39 equiraptor

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> Out government are doing all the
> possible. We don't have capital
> punishment , we respect the human
> rights, not like the USA government.

Not like the USA government? Ever heard of the Bill of Rights, also known as the first 10 amendments to the constitution? If it weren't for that, the government of the US might feel it had the right to track you down and KILL YOU for critizing it. But, it doesn't. It doesn't need to, it doesn't want to. If the citizens of the country are dissatisfied with our governemt, we have the constitutional right to disband it and create a new one. We haven't needed to yet, we just vote in the next election. Have you ever read the constitution? It is amazing to think that some "colonials" upset with their mother country sat down and wrote this for the right to have their own governement. Sure, it's needed amendments, and some amendments have been mistakes, but those tend to get corrected.

I admit, I am an American Citizen who has never been out of the US. But, after reading comments like those, I'm not sure I want to go. I am quite fond of my human rights here, and I know my government will not put the death penalty upon my head without just cause and due process. The only reason I am not totally against the death penalty is I don't want to pay for your housing and food the rest of your life because you got mad at someone and killed them in a fit of rage. And, by the way, the death penalty is NOT legal in all 50 states. That is a state issue, not a federal one. Praise the states in which it is illegal, try to pursuade the others to agree with your side, instead of grouping them all as one.

11 Sep 2002 12:41 tris

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
Just to wrap this up from my point of view, I dont think this is doing anyone anygood...

I am more than aware of my countries crimes, France and the UK share the bulk of the responsibility for the crisis in the middle east, our secret service actions in ireland were indefenseible, I'm not claiming innocense, and Im not claiming that the U.S. are wholey evil. The key here is that denying, or being willfully ignorant of the crimes that our respective countries have perpetrated does do anyone any good.

Personally I don't want to see anyone dead, in regard to the taliban, as unsavoury as I might find thier attitudes, I don't wish to see them dead. It's far too early to say that the current situation in afghanistan has solved anything, the taliban, for all thier crimes, achieved relative stability in afghanistan and managed to almost iradicate opium production, we will have to see if Mr. Karzi can achieve the same.

Even if your right about the human race being pre-disposed to blood shed, I'd rather try and work toward something better, and learning from our mistakes is an important part of that.

11 Sep 2002 12:51 equiraptor

Re: Nobody remembers Spain?
Not offended at all. Perhaps it is bigheadded of the companies from the US to remember this day in such a manner. But, we remember Pearl Harbor every year, and many of our citizens consider this a worse attack than Pearl Harbor. It was not only a sneak attack, it was a sneak attack on a civilian location (well, the Pentagon wasn't, but the Trade Center was). It is not about terrorism as a whole, but about a single terrorist attack of such magnitude. And, no, we don't have any such celebration for Spain, but, we are the US. Why should we have a rememborance for something that occured in another country? I'm not trying to "conceited US. American who doesn't care about the rest of the world", I'm trying to respect my heritage. Create a rememberance in Spain for your many years of suffering. Do yourselves the honor, why do you need us to?

I wasn't trying to be rude, or mean. I'm not even sure that I agree with everything I said. But if asked to argue why the US companies should remember this day above many others, that would be part of my arguement. This post, unlike my one further up the page, was not written in anger or frustration. It was an attempt to communicate.

11 Sep 2002 12:53 AstroDrabb

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture

>
> Now, during recent floods, USA sent
> about $50K for Red Cross in four
> countries as help.
>
> Also, Europe has much stricter
> regulations wrt pollution, from
> small-scale waste to industrial
> pollution. Heck, even China agrees with
> Kyoto negotiations. USA doesn't.
>

Just some of the things the USA has done:

In fiscal year 2002, the United States pledged nearly $400 million for Afghan relief and reconstruction

The United States has delivered or pledged more than 290,000 metric tons of food aid since the beginning of 2002, and plans to provide another 190,000 metric tons of food very soon. At a total value of more than $230 million, the United States government is the largest donor to the World Food Program's operations in southern Africa.

The past 18 years, Sudan has been embroiled in a complicated civil war. Since 1989, USAID has put over one billion dollars in humanitarian assistance into Sudan. Beginning in 1998, development assistance has also been provided in southern Sudan.

Take a look here at all the USA does to help the world:

www.usaid.gov/

"Also, Europe has much stricter regulations wr pollution, from small-scale waste to industrial pollution. Heck, even China agrees with Kyoto negotiations. USA doesn't."

So you are telling me that you have intimate knowledge of every US and European law and regulation on pollution control and are able to do a comparison between the two?

11 Sep 2002 14:14 ptolemy

Ad-Free Freshmeat Experience
I actually didn't care that much whether or not OSDN wanted to make this an ad-free day. However, this announcement and its follow-up responses has convinced me that I shouldn't be allowing OSDN ads anymore. As a result, I'm going to remove my "no ads" exception for OSDN and start blocking them with Mozilla.

The utter cruft I've seen from the commentary on this post has taught me that it's only a grab for attention (they got it in spades!) and I don't want to support OSDN through ads if this is what will become of it.

11 Sep 2002 14:36 ketter

To be honest..
What the hell are we going on about here ? Everyone is raging about what they think is right or wrong.. I thought that this was a gesture to show that the hart of the ODSN has enough room for a remembrance.. but all we are doing now is naggin about what we think is right or wrong. Take every thing step by step, and realize that the USA has never taken a blow like this in its excistence.. It has been boming the hell out of a lot of country's for mainly the right reasons. It had never gotten to a point where it would be bullshitted in her own Commercial capital in such a form, and never saw the real threat.

This is a major blow to everyone.. Don't think your USA is still your USA.. borders are thin lines..

Example.. Holland and her capital Amsterdam are a heaven for a lot people, and that means our drug problem is growing. We have to do everything that we think is right, and still we don't care about our neighbours because we can see the results, and the effect it has. A lot of country's followed our lead in a section that we have a lot of experciece in.

All in good time.. don't hurry anything.

11 Sep 2002 14:55 Brightblade

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

>
> The only reason I am
> not totally against the death penalty is
> I don't want to pay for your housing and
> food the rest of your life because you
> got mad at someone and killed them in a
> fit of rage.

Actually the death penalty costs the state more than the costs to maintain a prisioner in prision for life, housing, food, clothes, medical, etc, etc.

Also it has been proven that innocent people falsely proven guilty have been given the death sentence. See if your in jail for life, the mistake can be fixed, but the same cannot be said if your dead..............

11 Sep 2002 15:01 asinkecualo

You can remember afghan people killed by USA
Why not? They were innocents killed by USA troops. Did they kill someone, so they deserves to be killed too?

11 Sep 2002 15:12 Brightblade

Re: Next Add-Free Day

> I assume the next for the next add-free
> day will in commemoration of the
> upcoming killing of innocent Iraqi
> people by the Bush administration.
>

Yes blame Bush for the fact that Saddam banned the weapons inspectors, so if you want to blame the death of innocents, blame it on Saddam.

You see this is what happens when you lose, you have to pay retributions, in this case Iraq must allow weapons inspectors to make sure Iraq doesn't try this again with better, more deadly weapons. Its no secret not many middle eastern countries like the US because of the US's support of Israel, but hey bet you didn't know Iraq donates money to the families of those who blow themselves up. Darn so how about those innocent Israel citizens having to live in fear some guy on their bus is going to blow himself up, or that guy walking down the road isn't going to shoot at you.

Iraq isn't so innocent, and democracy for the last 4 years has failed to get weapons inspectors back in there. When is enough that we'll say "NO MORE BULLSHIT Saddam, you let them in or pay the price."

So if the Bush Administration feels it must punish Saddam for breaking the rules, than innocents will die, which will be a sad thing, but it will not be 100% Bush's fault, Saddam is as much to blame for it.

11 Sep 2002 15:14 asinkecualo

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....
Not like the USA government? Did you hear about of the Bill of Rights?

The USA government infringes the Geneva Convention (www.unhchr.ch/html/men...) with taliban war prisoners... Did you hear about? This are human rights... But the right to take guns with you is not a Universal Human Right.

If it weren't for that, the government of the US might feel it had the right to track you down and KILL YOU for critizing it. But, it doesn't. It doesn't need to, it doesn't want to.

OK. So the USA Government hadn't ever killed nobody for it's opinion (www.korpios.org/resurg...)? Did you hear about Che Guevara (killed by CIA), or Salvador Allende (killed by chilean people supported by the CIA), or Monseñor Romero killed in El Salvador with the money (an the order) of USA government?

If the citizens of the country are dissatisfied with our governemt, we have the constitutional right to disband it and create a new one. We haven't needed to yet, we just vote in the next election.

OK. So USA people discovered the DEMOCRACY? Uffff... You are so smart... Please, don't kill us...

Have you ever read the constitution?

Yes I have... Have you ever read Spanish Constitution (www.sispain.org/englis...) or The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (www1.umn.edu/humanrts/...)?

I admit, I am an American Citizen who has never been out of the US. But, after reading comments like those, I'm not sure I want to go.

Ok, if you feel the need to go out of your lovely and heavenly country, here you have a map of the world (www.lib.utexas.edu/map...)

I am quite fond of my human rights here, and I know my government will not put the death penalty upon my head without just cause and due process.

Have you heard about the case of Joaquin Jose Martinez (web.amnesty.org/802568...)? A Spanish citizen who had been under sentence of death in Florida for three years... He was declared not guilty in a retrial. If you'd have killed him, he couldn't be again at home...

That is a state issue, not a federal one. Praise the states in which it is illegal, try to pursuade the others to agree with your side, instead of grouping them all as one.

Are you sure? The Federal death penalty (www.amnestyusa.org/abo...) is not a foregin myth. We (those strange and bad people living outside the USA (www.buxeres.com/parido...)) are not as you could think.

You bet!

11 Sep 2002 15:17 Brightblade

Re: Well, if you're going to do it...

> Then don't announce it, just do it!
>
> Announcing in such a public fashion that
> you're going to remove advertising for a
> day is the equivalent to beating people
> over the head with a club and screaming,
> "Hey, look at us, we're sensitive!"

We all do what we can to remember 9/11, not everyone can go to the extreme, this is a little token in rememberence, I'm sure if they could they would of built a statue in rememberence, but they could not. Remember its not the gift that counts, but the thought that does.

11 Sep 2002 16:11 MrParanoia

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
AstroMan wrote:
> You are a BIG idiot.
> The arab people are getting what they deserve.
> America has not screwed anyone.

Plucked from the vast ocean of examples:

Key financier of the Taliban, and Osama bin Laden‘s brother-in-law, Sheikh Khalid, was finally indicted in 1992 on charges

that he had schemed to defraud depositors, regulators and auditors of the insolvent BCCI. Shortly thereafter, a federal judge

signed an order freezing Sheikh Khalid’s U.S. assets, including a luxury penthouse apartment on Fifth Avenue in New York

and stock in MCorp. Conveniently, however, the New York court permitted the Saudi billionaire-turned terrorist sponsor to

pay the U.S. a settlement fine of $225 million to let him walk away a free man.

Forward to 2001, and the U.S. and the Afghanistan Taliban have negotiated for months over running a Caspian Sea oil

pipeline through Afghanistan. Talks began in February 2001 and continued right on until one month before New York City's

World Trade Center towers were demolished. During the course of these negotiations the two parties were unable to agree

upon a deal, mainly because Bush and his oil agents constantly upped the ante on the rather naive Taliban representatives.

The Taliban negotiators, understandably, became distrustful of the entire process, and less and less confident they were

being dealt with in good faith. So, in the beginning of August, the Bush administration and its oil cohorts delivered what

amounted to an ultimatum to the Taliban. The Taliban representatives were told: Accept our offer of "a carpet of gold or

you'll get a carpet of bombs." Further more, Bush directly ordered the FBI and other U.S. law enforcement groups to 'back

off' on 'terrorist related investigations' while the oil pipeline negotiations were underway. As a result of this request the FBI's

Deputy Director John O'Neill resigned in July in protest over this outrageous and intolerable obstruction. And just so you

know, the whereabouts of one Osama bin Laden, then already firmly entrenched at the very top of the U.S.'s "most-wanted

terrorist" list, was during the entire course of these pipeline negotiations, never an issue with the Bush cartel. Never

once were the Taliban urged to hand bin Laden over for all those other horrendous crimes Feds maintain bin Laden

has been charged with committing over the years. And so barely a month after the Bush administration sabotaged the

negotiations with the Taliban regarding running the Caspian Sea oil pipeline through Afghanistan, the World Trade Center

towers are bombed into oblivion, bringing about the "war on terrorism" that is directed at the Taliban in Afghanistan. So,

now that the Taliban have been removed the pipeline project is back on track. It is important to remember that the world's

richest oil country, Saudi Arabia, has 30 billion barrels of proven oil reserves, yet the Caspian oil reserves are conservatively

estimated to be 50 billion barrels. So under this scenario, a conspiracy theorists might say a pliant Afghan regime was

essential because of plans to pipe central Asian oil across Afghanistan. One could say that the culprit responsible for the

Sept. 11 attack is one and the same as he who lurked behind the grassy knoll: the oil-dependent U.S. military-industrial

complex. I'm not actually saying (here anyway) that the Sept. 11's terrorist acts were planned and paid for by the CIA to

enable the Bush Administration to "legitimately" bomb Afghanistan into submission on behalf of the oil industry. But I am

saying that that is what happened as a result of Sep. 11's aftermath. After all, follow the money, as they say, and you'll find

the smoking gun.

Minty wrote:
> I am more than aware of my countries crimes...

Oh I very much doubt that!(EG)

But be warned my friends! The Pentagon has just established a new Office of Strategic Influence that calls for the planting

of false stories in the foreign press, phoney e-mails from disguised addresses and other covert activities to manipulate

public opinion. This could be one of them...

11 Sep 2002 17:39 Ode2Me

What is wrong with you people??
All of you who are complaing about this site not advertising and questioning why they didn't do this for other events of loss; saying that you are not going to read Freshmeat/OSDN anymore :

I can only assume that you all will not watch TV, listen to the radio, read the newspaper or go to many, many other web sites including Slashdot, Google, Yahoo, the list goes on, anymore as well??

I mean, all of these "venues" are ALL remembering the hell out of 9/11 like I have never seen them do before. How are you living today with all of the rememberances??? They are everywhere you look!!

What ARE you going to do?

11 Sep 2002 18:29 johannesrichter

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
Hint: Pollution costs money. Even for other countries.

11 Sep 2002 18:57 coscorrosa

Re: Well, if you're going to do it...

> We all do what we can to remember 9/11,
> not everyone can go to the extreme, this
> is a little token in rememberence, I'm
> sure if they could they would of built a
> statue in rememberence, but they could
> not. Remember its not the gift that
> counts, but the thought that does.

You missed the point.

Their "thought" is not born out of sincerity, it's done to better their public image. If they were sincere, they wouldn't have to publicize what they were doing, but they wanted to make sure you noticed.

11 Sep 2002 18:57 squidinkcalligraphy

dammit that's counterproductive
A good consumer is a good patriot. Consumerism relies on advertising; turning off advertising is an act of anti-consumerism, and thus, terrorism. This gesture goes against everything america stands for; dammit the people WANT to be flooded with messages to buy, buy, buy!

Just remember, sharing is bad for the economy. When you share, rich people suffer. For your countries' sake, DON'T SHARE

11 Sep 2002 19:24 auDanielS

Re: Next Add-Free Day

> Yes blame Bush for the fact that Saddam
> banned the weapons inspectors, so if you
> want to blame the death of innocents,
> blame it on Saddam.
>
> You see this is what happens when you
> lose, you have to pay retributions, in
> this case Iraq must allow weapons
> inspectors to make sure Iraq doesn't try
> this again with better, more deadly
> weapons. Its no secret not many middle
> eastern countries like the US because of
> the US's support of Israel, but hey bet
> you didn't know Iraq donates money to
> the families of those who blow
> themselves up. Darn so how about those
> innocent Israel citizens having to live
> in fear some guy on their bus is going
> to blow himself up, or that guy walking
> down the road isn't going to shoot at
> you.

Hm, what about the US? I'm sure they have lots of
nasty weapons, but no-one wants to check them.

> Iraq isn't so innocent, and democracy
> for the last 4 years has failed to get
> weapons inspectors back in there. When
> is enough that we'll say "NO MORE
> BULLSHIT Saddam, you let them in or pay
> the price."
>
> So if the Bush Administration feels it
> must punish Saddam for breaking the
> rules, than innocents will die, which
> will be a sad thing, but it will not be
> 100% Bush's fault, Saddam is as much to
> blame for it.

I agree one hundred percent. We must punish rogue
states who refuse to abide by the rules, like one
particular state that refuses to sign to the
International Criminal Court unless it's exempt,
and the Kyoto Protocol. Bomb it to the shithouse!


11 Sep 2002 20:33 tarlong

Re: Patriotism...

>
> [snip]
> %
> % Fundamentalists christians are just
> as
> % bad as Fundamentalist Muslims...
> %
> %
>
>
> Yeah, just look at how many
> fundamentalist Christians fly airplanes
> full of people into buildings full of
> people. Yep, no difference there at all.

Have you read ANY history at all? Christianity did not fly any planes, cut were instrumental in the genocide of MANY natives cultures in the Americas... Fanatism is evil, be it muslim, christian or whatever based. Many have died by it. Read, learn, educate and UNIVERSILIZE your self before judging. 'Nuff Said.

11 Sep 2002 20:38 tarlong

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> You ungrateful faggots... Has the camel
> f*cking / soap free lifestyle destroyed
> your reasoning so much? Last I checked
> this is freshmeat.net not freshmeat.iq
> or even freshmeat.es. They don't owe you
> sh*t. Don't like it? Not fair? Then
> don't come here!Did you look at Google,
> or Yahoo, etc. etc.?? You gonna b*tch
> about them too? (Damn American companies
> paying respect to their own country!)
> Just an idea, but why not get your own
> damn sites to worry about yourselves?To
> the Spanish idiot.... did you ever think
> that maybe you wouldn't have had to deal
> with it for 30 years if you guys got
> some balls and did something about it?
> Boo F*cking Hoo Hoo for you, right?
> We're always supposed to give a sh*t
> about you, but honestly, tell me when
> the last time someone other than
> Australlia, or England has helped us
> with something more than words?And
> logically, do you really want us to stop
> polluting? If we find clean ways of
> doing things, we'll have no need for a
> certain part of the world anymore, and
> would be much less reserved in the
> disposal of something that's lost it's
> usefullness.... I don't really care for
> him, but I hope Bush Jr. makes peace
> with his creator and rains the fires of
> hell down on you pricks.

You are just simply an angry moron.

11 Sep 2002 20:38 tarlong

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> You ungrateful faggots... Has the camel
> f*cking / soap free lifestyle destroyed
> your reasoning so much? Last I checked
> this is freshmeat.net not freshmeat.iq
> or even freshmeat.es. They don't owe you
> sh*t. Don't like it? Not fair? Then
> don't come here!Did you look at Google,
> or Yahoo, etc. etc.?? You gonna b*tch
> about them too? (Damn American companies
> paying respect to their own country!)
> Just an idea, but why not get your own
> damn sites to worry about yourselves?To
> the Spanish idiot.... did you ever think
> that maybe you wouldn't have had to deal
> with it for 30 years if you guys got
> some balls and did something about it?
> Boo F*cking Hoo Hoo for you, right?
> We're always supposed to give a sh*t
> about you, but honestly, tell me when
> the last time someone other than
> Australlia, or England has helped us
> with something more than words?And
> logically, do you really want us to stop
> polluting? If we find clean ways of
> doing things, we'll have no need for a
> certain part of the world anymore, and
> would be much less reserved in the
> disposal of something that's lost it's
> usefullness.... I don't really care for
> him, but I hope Bush Jr. makes peace
> with his creator and rains the fires of
> hell down on you pricks.

You are just simply an angry moron.

11 Sep 2002 21:01 tarlong

Re: Good deal

> I think it is nice that you do
> something. Pretty much everyone is going
> to do something in rememberance of that
> day, even if it is just pausing to think
> about it.
>
> The rest of the morons on this site
> should just get over themselves. I am
> not sure where OSDN is based but I would
> have to think it is somewhere in
> America. For those who wish to go else
> where or just bitch about their own
> problems do it somewhere else.
>
> If your country is so great then go
> start your own Freshmeat/OSDN site in
> that country... then you too can scream
> about the injustices of your own country
> on that site.
>
> This is America get used to it.
>

I stopped and gave thanks that my little cousin and her dauthers were no caught in this. I and really believe that everyone should stop and at least meditate on this and many other atrocities that plague or have plagued our world but here is a bit of thruth to you:

This is America get used to it.

America is continent. The United States of America are just part of it. I am an american citizen and shed tears that day.

Like i said I am thankfull that i did not loose anyone, but many died because a bunch of fanatical morons thought that hitting the other guy is the way to win. You can't kill the boggey man, but you can learn to outwit it. Every time a moron thinks that attacking the US will win them anything is wrong, not to mention having a serious death wish. Those attacks did nothing except give purpose and strenght to a bogus government (The Florida State elections were never really resolved to satisfaction). Like i said, I am an american and very fragging proud of it, but it saddens me to see that so many of my countrymen are, in fact, sheep following the herd... Open your eyes and see!

11 Sep 2002 21:05 tarlong

Re: Well, if you're going to do it...

> Then don't announce it, just do it!
>
> Announcing in such a public fashion that
> you're going to remove advertising for a
> day is the equivalent to beating people
> over the head with a club and screaming,
> "Hey, look at us, we're sensitive!"
>
> Apparently, just removing the
> advertising for a day isn't enough, you
> need to tell everybody about it in order
> to gain good PR. Essentially, then, you
> are advertising - ironic, isn't it?
>
> While you're in the mood for providing
> us information, why not tell us why
> other human tragedies, many of which
> there were more lives lost than the
> tragedy one year ago, don't warrant this
> kind of remembrance.
>
> Would it have anything to do with the
> fact that the value gained in PR
> wouldn't exceed the revenues generated
> by advertising (in all cases except this
> one)?

A-fragging-men! Thank you, there is hope, i knew it.

11 Sep 2002 22:20 srz16

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> You are just simply an angry moron.

Because I only post my messages once, or what?

11 Sep 2002 22:46 exonic

Re: A Worthwhile Gesture
Of course we need to remember 9/11, ad free day is a nice way of the OSDN network expressing their remembrance. I've heard people say things like "don't change the way we live because of terrorism otherwise they win." They changed the way we live by destorying the WTC. It doesn't hurt anything or anyone to remember and look back, especially since its' been one long solid year since the attack. My $.02....

11 Sep 2002 22:51 cguru

Re: Patriotism...
ANYONE can say their a Christian and not ACT like a Christian. Would God bomb an abortion clinic? Most likely not, and these people are not being good Christians by doing so.

> Have you read ANY history at all?
> Christianity did not fly any planes, cut
> were instrumental in the genocide of
> MANY natives cultures in the Americas...
> Fanatism is evil, be it muslim,
> christian or whatever based. Many have
> died by it. Read, learn, educate and
> UNIVERSILIZE your self before judging.
> 'Nuff Said.

11 Sep 2002 22:55 cguru

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....
Justice, my friend doesn't go to the lowest bidder. Read my article on www.crimeagainstameric... about why the death penalty is right.

>
> %
> % The only reason I am
> % not totally against the death penalty
> is
> % I don't want to pay for your housing
> and
> % food the rest of your life because
> you
> % got mad at someone and killed them in
> a
> % fit of rage.
>
>
> Actually the death penalty costs the
> state more than the costs to maintain a
> prisioner in prision for life, housing,
> food, clothes, medical, etc, etc.
>
> Also it has been proven that innocent
> people falsely proven guilty have been
> given the death sentence. See if your
> in jail for life, the mistake can be
> fixed, but the same cannot be said if
> your dead..............
>

11 Sep 2002 23:05 cguru

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
Actually, we DO help other countries..we help them by allowing them to come here and live and work here while jeopardizing our own sovereignty...

> Heh, your comment, which totally lacks
> any coherency or
> logic, amuses me.
> America has always done things that
> suites them. Never
> anything to help anyone else - yet they
> have called for the
> world to help them in their "war on
> terror".
> America doesnt remember the victims of
> the Atom Bomb
> THEY dropped on Japan - just to make a
> point. The
> war
> was already over, Japan was destroyed..
> Yet America had to
> kill civilians just to show off..
> America doesnt remember the
> victims of American owned capitalist
> sweatshops. America
> doesnt remember the victims of drought
> and flooding caused
> by global warming (most of which is a
> result of pollution
> generated in the US)..
> You say that OSDN is making a financial
> sacrifice on
> 9/11?
> Hah, my ass they are. OSDN just see a
> cheap way to become
> a
> 'better commercial citizen', gain more
> customers and such..
> And "sacrificing" a days worth of
> advertising, no worries to
> them.
> I hope, when America declares war on
> Iraq
> that you go to fight. I hope that you
> see first hand the pain
> and suffering that America's war causes
> others.

11 Sep 2002 23:30 djnietzsch

Bad taste? -or- We're here for open source, not politics.
OSDN's prominent announcement of this no-ads
business, and perhaps the no-ads business itself,
is in some ways in bad taste. What are in even
worst taste is those posts I see that criticize (often
rather venomously) it and those that respond by
attacking those critics. (I realize that this post might
be looked on as an attack on these critics. I'm
sure all of you are very clever and have no need
to prove it by pointing that out.)

As I see it, one of the cool things about
the open source and free software "community"
is that it transcends national borders. I see
posters from Spain, Holland, UK, and US here.
The September eleventh attacks were certainly
tragedies for the United States. That does not
make them tragedies for the world. Spain has
its tragedies, India has its, and so forth. To
make the commemoration of 9/11 the business
of people who do not necessarily think so much
of it (particularly in relation to other tragedies in
recent memory) is in rather poor taste, in my
opinion.

freshmeat.net is in some sense the "Cheers"
(maybe a "Cheers" (Cheers is a bar "where
everyone knows your name" from a popular
American sitcom)) of the open source world.
Why then are people clawing at each other's
throats over international politics. This is not the
venue for venting one's rage at the perceived
injustice of the United States' foreign policy nor
for displays of jingoistic patriotism. There are
more responses to this article than to most (nearly
all) I've seen that relate to legitimate open source
issues. That is in poor taste. Save your malice for
Microsoft.

This article should have gone off with few if any
responses. I am disturbed to see that some people
will not return to this site because of this business.
I shudder to think that those people might be
developers. As open source enthusiasts, at least
on some things, we're on the same side. To people
from the United States: Don't alienate people from
other countries: we need them. To people from
other countries whose names I can't spell: take it
easy on us, many of us were raised to think that
the United States is the only worthwhile country in
the world. The smart ones among us realize that is
not the case.

12 Sep 2002 01:24 Brightblade

Re: Next Add-Free Day

> I agree one hundred percent. We must
> punish rogue
> states who refuse to abide by the rules,
> like one
> particular state that refuses to sign to
> the
> International Criminal Court unless it's
> exempt,
> and the Kyoto Protocol. Bomb it to the
> shithouse!
>
>
>

interesting oppinion you have there, but no one is forced to abide by the Kyoto Protocol, that was entirely voluntary, unlike the weapons instructors were forced upon Iraq. Calling the US a rogue state is a rather interesting notion, albiet maybe not agreeing with the Kyoto protocol is rather far stretched thought. About the International Criminal court, well that is up to debate, which really depends on case by case. I mean a terrorist group attacking america targets such as the USS Cole or US Embasy's, and certain targets on US soil which I need not name, should be tried by the US, for if I goto another country and kill someone, I would be deported to be on trial in that country. Mind you any Embassy is that country's soil, aka if I'm in the US embassy in some country, I am in fact on US soil, not that country's soil. So terrorists attacking the US, shall be punished by the US, aka the not the terrorists being held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are for us to handle, not some international court which would be overseen by countries not even affected by the Al Queda Network. Now certain people such as Milosevic would be very well suited for such a court, but what need is there of one when you have the UN.

You see when it comes to opinion, anyone is allowed to think what they want. But Iraq was not allowed to have decide if they wanted weapons inspectors, or Germany paying billions in retributions because of World War 2. The UN, made up of many countries placed this on them in retrobution for their "crimes." See the difference? Kyoto is optional, weapon inspectors are not. International Criminal Court optional, punishment is not. Get it?

12 Sep 2002 06:46 chakie

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> So I assume you're writing this on a
> solar powered computer?

No, but I'm not driving a huge pickup truck with a 24 litre engine either.

> Gee you sound like a vagina.

Thanks. Always nice discussing with such intelligent people as you.

> ...bombing of Iraq.....

Why not do it through negotiations? Saddam is not the most thrustworthy person, but didn't he already get scared and wanted to restart the negotiations?

Speaking of Iraq, I think that the US led trade embargo of Iraq has killed 10 times or 100 times as many civilians since 1991 than died in the WTC. Mostly weak children and women. But that's ok, you say? So, if he's so bad, why didn't you "finish the job" last time? It would've taken a few days extra to conquer the whole of Iraq. No, instead you leave a dictator in power and let the civilians suffer because of lack of medicine and food, and then, after 11 years you think it's again time to bomb Iraq. What has changed now that warrants a war against Iraq? Nothing.

Read up on history, please.

12 Sep 2002 06:47 chakie

Re: Bad taste? -or- We're here for open source, not politics.
Excellent post! Thanks a lot!

12 Sep 2002 09:30 mortehl

Are you people mental defective?
The godamned website tried to do something nice and you jerks complained about it? For crying out loud get your godamned "Holier then Thou" carrot out of your asses and go stick it somewhere else?

I am just SO Pissed off right now hearing that some godamned twerp or two communicating behind a godamned computer complained. Unless you idiots didnt notice people from NINETY-ONE different nations died 9/11. While it was a decidedly American tragedy, in truth it was a WORLD WIDE TRAGEDY.

Before I totally lose my self control I'll end this post.

A very pissed off New Yorker

12 Sep 2002 12:17 genesiscoder

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere
Your figures are wrong, there isn't that much oil there at all, no one cares about the oil there, that isn't the reason for this war! How can you think that is the reason, there's nothing there but rocks and desert, don't you watch TV! You never see oil and big factory complexes and stuff like that, how you do in the oil producing countries.

We're at war there because they took out WTC and so we took them out! So I don't know where you get those oil figures from, I guess just out of your head huh!

12 Sep 2002 14:25 MrParanoia

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

> Your figures are wrong, there isn't that
> much oil there at all...
> I don't know where you get those oil figures
> from, I guess just out of your head huh!

I don't know wether to laugh or cry.

I shall provide more info so you may see the truth of it. But the other comments you made I won't be commenting on those, for reasons that shall become obvious to you in about 20 years time. As I said in my orig post, it's a very conservative estimate that I stated, the actual figures go much higher even than I stated above. Some info:

The Caspian Sea region, including the Sea and the littoral states surrounding it, is important to
world energy markets because it holds large reserves of undeveloped oil and natural gas. The Caspian
Sea's mineral wealth has resulted in disagreements between the five countries over ownership of the
resources, and the region's huge energy potential has sparked fierce competition -between producers
as well as consumers-over the final export routes for this oil and natural gas.

The Caspian Sea is located in northwest Asia, landlocked between Azerbaijan, Iran, Kazakhstan,
Russia, and Turkmenistan. Since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991, the Caspian Sea -as well
as the region surrounding it- has became the focus of much international attention due to its huge
oil and natural gas reserves. The Sea, which is 700 miles long, contains six separate identified
hydrocarbon basins, although most of its oil and natural gas reserves have not been developed yet.
Although the littoral states of the Caspian Sea already are major energy producers, many areas of
the Sea and the surrounding area remain unexplored. The prospect of potentially enormous hydrocarbon
reserves is part of the allure of the Caspian Sea region (which includes include Azerbaijan,
Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, and the regions of Iran and Russia that are near the Caspian Sea). The
Caspian region contains 10 billion barrels of proven oil reserves (defined as oil and natural gas
liquids deposits that are considered 90% probable). In addition, the region's possible oil reserves
(defined as 50% to 90% probable) could yield another 233 billion barrels of oil, bringing the total
to 243 billion barrels of oil.

By 2010 the Caspian region will produce 3.8 million barrels plus per day, or about 60 percent of
North Sea output. Saudi Arabia and Russia both produce about 7 million barrels per day each. In a
recent report, the U.S. Department of Energy estimated that, "the Caspian holds up to 233 billion
barrels of possible reserves" (see above).

Here's how it breaks down:

Azerbaijan ---- 1.2 BBL* -- 32 BBL** --- 33.2 BBL*** - 4.4 Tcf* --- 35 Tcf** -- 39.4 Tcf***
Iran ------------ 0.1 BBL* -- 15 BBL** --- 15.1 BBL*** - 0 Tcf* ----- 11 Tcf** -- 11 Tcf***
Kazakhstan --- 5.4 BBL* -- 92 BBL** --- 97.4 BBL*** - 65 Tcf* ---- 88 Tcf** -- 153 Tcf***
Russia --------- 2.7 BBL* -- 14 BBL** --- 16.7 BBL***
Turkmenistan - 0.6 BBL* -- 80 BBL** --- 80.6 BBL*** --101 Tcf* --- 159 Tcf** - 260 Tcf***
Total ---------- 10 BBL* --- 233 BBL** -- 243 BBL*** -- 170.4 Tcf* - 293 Tcf** - 463.4 Tcf***

Note: Iran & Russia; only the regions near the Caspian are included.

Sources: Oil and Gas Journal, Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of Energy, others.

Key:
* --- Proven reserves are defined as oil and natural gas deposits that are considered 90% probable.
** -- Possible reserves are defined as oil and natural gas deposits that are considered 50% to 90%
probable.
*** - Total oil or natural gas reserves.
BBL = billion barrels
Tcf = trillion cubic feet

12 Sep 2002 14:29 srz16

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....

> No, but I'm not driving a huge pickup
> truck with a 24 litre engine either.

I take offense to that. My huge pickup truck has a 25 litre engine.

%Thanks. Always nice discussing with such
> intelligent people as you.

No prob. Wish I could say the same. But seriously, I actually respect your response here as I was obviously trying to get an exchange of equal stature. I do however feel that such a position which gives compassion to Saddam is rather effeminate and desirous of a rather large tampon to accompany it.

> Why not do it through negotiations?
> Saddam is not the most thrustworthy
> person

Exactly.

> but didn't he already get scared
> and wanted to restart the negotiations?

If playing games qualifies. You don't get to make the rules when you lost the war. Do you not realize that even the U.N. refuses to accept the unacceptable terms which Iraq has offered?

> Speaking of Iraq, I think that the US
> led trade embargo of Iraq has killed 10
> times or 100 times as many civilians
> since 1991 than died in the WTC.

Actually the last number I heard (not personally verified) was 1.5 million have died. This puts it at damn near 500 times the amount of people killed. However the sanctions are not placed there by the US, but rather by the United Nations. The U.S. gets blames because we foot the lions share of the bill / work / manpower so we're obviously the most noticed. We're the bad guy because other countries can't keep up? Besides, do you think Saddam has been affected AT ALL by the sanctions? He hasn't built new palaces and weapons factories instead of feeding his people has he? The Oil for Food program money isn't spent on funding a military that murders / rapes / and gasses it's own people, right? Somehow it's OUR fault that he doesn't follow the rules and in doing so keeps the sanctions in place? I agree that it's horrible that so many Iraqi's have needlessly died. I don't think the Iraqi people are bad people. I hope Saddam starts looking out for his people instead of himself. The US is not demanding anything other than what the Cease Fire Agreement (written and authorized by the UN Security Council) contained.

> So, if he's so bad, why didn't
> you "finish the job" last time?
> [......] and then, after 11
> years you think it's again time to bomb
> Iraq. What has changed now that warrants
> a war against Iraq? Nothing.

That's the problem, we took such a weak stance before in dealing with him that we have to deal with it now. We listened to what the UN and it's members had to say. We gave Saddam a chance to stay in power by following some simple rules which he agreed to. We've given the bastard 11 years worth of chaces to redem himself. He has chosen not to. It's unfortunate that UN has taken such a weak stance in dealing with the situation. It NEVER should have been acceptable to break the rules in the first place, and the first time should have forcibly been made the last. All we're doing now is finishing the job. Saddam is the one who decided whether the job was finished or not.

> Read up on history, please.

Thanks, but I'm fully aware of the factual details. Are you? I honestly appreciate your position and the way you've presented yourself, but explain to me these simple things which I've been asking this whole time... We won the war in '91 (and not just the US, but the UN), the winners make the rules, correct? Saddam agreed to the rules, correct? The reason Saddam agreed to the rules was so we would stop kicking his ass, correct? Saddam has broken the rules, correct? Obviously enforcement of the agreement is necessary, or is this where you disagree?

13 Sep 2002 10:01 lutris

Re: Patriotism...

ANYONE can say their a Christian and not ACT like a Christian. Would God bomb an abortion clinic? Most likely not, and these people are not being good Christians by doing so.

Anyone can say that they are a Muslem and not act like a Muslem. Would Allah bomb a few thousand civilians? Most likely not; the Koran preaches peace. The Taliban are no more aveage Muslems than the KKK or Reverend Phelps are average Christians.

(My apologies if that should be God, not Allah)

Relegion is not inherently dangerous; fanaticism is.

13 Sep 2002 10:13 lutris

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....
Off topic, but in some ways that might be a relief.

> Actually the death penalty costs the state more than the costs to maintain a prisioner in prision for life, housing, food, clothes, medical, etc, etc.

Out of curiosity, how does that work? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering where the cost of maintaining someone in jail for life manages to be less than the cost of killing them early on.

I would assume that this either takes into acocunt the potential productivity of someone out on good behavior (though if they did enough to have capitol punishment considered, I would hope that they don' get out), or possibly the output of inmate labour?

(I'm not trying to advocate for or against the death penalty, I'm just curious about the cost breakdown. I guess that that would make me a good CEO; I'll try and avoid starting a flame war by not extending that to nationality)

17 Sep 2002 10:06 edsonmedina

Re: Thanks to Bin Laden

> Thanks to Bin Laden, at least during one
> day, several sites I visit every day
> will not have any ads.
>
> Now, I have one good reason to celebrate
> September 11th: Internet without ads :-)

I fully agree. Thanks Bin.

24 Sep 2002 21:50 bootswork

Re: Patriotism...

> ANYONE can say their a Christian and not ACT like a Christian. Would God bomb an abortion clinic?

Of course He would... (www.theonion.com/onion...)

07 Oct 2002 17:16 kuwanger

Re: What are we going to do for people who die all the time in Rwanda, Bengladesh, PNG and elsewhere

> % America has always done things that
> % suites them. Never
> % anything to help anyone else - yet
> they
> % have called for the
> % world to help them in their "war on
> % terror".
> *Ahem*
>
> You are aware that the United States has
> never initiated a war, correct?
> WWI,WWII,Vietnam, Korea and yes even the
> Persian Gulf. All conflicts where our
> help was requested. You can argue all
> day long, but then history doesn't lie.
>

Excluding of course the War of 1812 which we lost... Wonder why *that* isn't brought up more often.

>
> % America doesnt remember the victims
> of
> % the Atom Bomb
> % THEY dropped on Japan - just to make
> a
> % point.
>
> Actually, your half wrong. For the most
> part, most americans don't remember
> that, I'll grant you that. Of course,
> one could argue that it was justified,
> because we were at war, and Japan killed
> US civillians without a second thought,
> which is what initiated the war between
> us and japan. Fortunately, and rather
> soon after the big one, we began to aid
> Japan in rebuilding, and now they depend
> on us and our economy.

The war began by Japan bombing a *military* outpost. Last I checked, that makes the people involved a military target. Neither Hiroshima or Nagasaki were military targets, unless you believe the entire city was one huge miltary target. Seriously, the atomic bomb was used to killing over a million civilians, irradiated thousands more, and in the end would have been deemed a "war crime" if Japan or German had done the same to one of the Allies. How many lives were saved? Who knows. Maybe a lot. Would that be civilians or military personnel? Probably the latter. Is it okay to kill the enemy's civilians to save one's own military personnel when both senarios are likely to resolve the struggle? (The senarios being a) nuke Japan into surrendering or b) begin a land assult (and yes, this could mean more civilian death in the long run but again that's back to the stated question)) If you feel that a war allows any justification for actions commited, then I'm glad you endorse the attack on the twin towers to kill civilians as just another act of war. After all, they had "justificiation".

> % America doesnt remember the
> % victims of American owned capitalist
> % sweatshops.
>
> Small fact: More than half the
> 'capitalists' in America, aren't
> American by birth, and were wealthy
> before they came here.

Considering that the majority of businesses are small businesses run by Americans, that "fact" is obviously false. More to the point, American does not sanction against American founded companies which commit inhumane acts upon foreign workers in their employment, and that's the problem the original poster was talking about.

> %America
> % doesnt remember the victims of
> drought
> % and flooding caused
> % by global warming (most of which is a
> % result of pollution
> % generated in the US)..
>
> You mean like Somolia, Brazil, Chile,
> Haiti, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and more
> than 100 more countries which the US has
> givin aid to in the past? Remember
> Chernobyl? During the Cold War, and we
> still gave them aid. Oh, not to mention
> we're responsible for most of the
> international laws banning toxic
> chemical dumping. Earth Day ring a bell,
> yah, we started that.

I'll give you that we do tend to help other countries who are in need of relief and for that I am glad that we at least attempt in some way to unitedly advance the survival of those for which nature has dealt a crappy hand.

> % You say that OSDN is making a
> financial
> % sacrifice on
> % 9/11?
> % Hah, my ass they are. OSDN just see a
> % cheap way to become
> % a
> % 'better commercial citizen', gain
> more
> % customers and such..
> % And "sacrificing" a days worth of
> % advertising, no worries to
> % them.
>
> Agreed, because this is symbolic, if
> they really wanted to show emotion they
> would have left the ads but donated the
> revenue.

Or they could have planted trees.

> % I hope, when America declares war on
> % Iraq
> % that you go to fight. I hope that you
> % see first hand the pain
> % and suffering that America's war
> causes
> % others.
>
>
> I'm afraid your mistaken again, we
> aren't the reason Iraq is a third world
> country, you can blame their leadership
> for that. We have offered aid to the
> Iraqi people in the past, and we still
> do actually. So, uh, care to try stating
> anything else you know nothing about?

And when we go over and kill civilians, we don't cause pain nor suffering? Oh wait, I forgot, wars don't cause pain and suffering except for the guilty..or something.

11 Oct 2002 01:06 gooba42

Re: This just reminds me why we are this way....
Please don't represent the US in any forum again. Your drivel is lacking much in the way of wisdom. You don't understand, just for starters, that insulting people is rude and doesn't get your point across.

Moreover from what follows your misogynistic tendencies become clear and you are simply too shortsighted to understand that the world you can see is not the entire world as it exists. Go suck some car exhaust, and if you live, come back and tell us how pleasant it was to breathe such clean and non-toxic fumes that are obviously not causing harm to anyone.

Anyone who is pro-pollution is anti-life and shouldn't be allowed to ruin it for the rest of us.

> You ungrateful faggots... Has the camel
> f*cking / soap free lifestyle destroyed
> your reasoning so much? Last I checked
> this is freshmeat.net not freshmeat.iq
> or even freshmeat.es. They don't owe you
> sh*t. Don't like it? Not fair? Then
> don't come here!Did you look at Google,
> or Yahoo, etc. etc.?? You gonna b*tch
> about them too? (Damn American companies
> paying respect to their own country!)
> Just an idea, but why not get your own
> damn sites to worry about yourselves?To
> the Spanish idiot.... did you ever think
> that maybe you wouldn't have had to deal
> with it for 30 years if you guys got
> some balls and did something about it?
> Boo F*cking Hoo Hoo for you, right?
> We're always supposed to give a sh*t
> about you, but honestly, tell me when
> the last time someone other than
> Australlia, or England has helped us
> with something more than words?And
> logically, do you really want us to stop
> polluting? If we find clean ways of
> doing things, we'll have no need for a
> certain part of the world anymore, and
> would be much less reserved in the
> disposal of something that's lost it's
> usefullness.... I don't really care for
> him, but I hope Bush Jr. makes peace
> with his creator and rains the fires of
> hell down on you pricks.

11 Oct 2002 12:03 scobie

The lot of you seems to have a need to get a life...
IMHO this was a nice *gesture* and should be taken as such...
It isn't like the world comes to a dead stop for an ad-free day, although there are nicer ways to show your sympathy.

12 Oct 2002 14:40 gooba42

Re: Next Add-Free Day
Ah, but the Guantanamo Bay abuses are in violation of human rights, or must be assumed to be so in light of the fact that the US refuses to allow the UN to inspect the facilities. Who must answer for that and to whom must they answer for it? They are not violating US law, they are on another nations soil and that nation by whatever mess of treaty or whatnot don't have control of it either.

So now we have a situation in which the US is in violation of international law, but not violating the laws of any individual state. If there was to be a trial it would have to be at an international level which, as many suspect, is probably the reason we refuse to participate fully in such a court system. We would then be held accountable the same as anyone else and equality is the last thing we want.

And as for being tried in a country where Al Qaeda doesn't operate, isn't that the unbiased trial which is the basis of the US court system? While we prefer to have the trial locally to the crime, we also allow changes of venue specifically for purposes of running the trial in an unbiased, unaffected locale.

How far do we extend the blame? Does the 5 year old who says "My daddy is Al Qaeda so I am too" get to be on trial for murder?
>
> interesting oppinion you have there, but
> no one is forced to abide by the Kyoto
> Protocol, that was entirely voluntary,
> unlike the weapons instructors were
> forced upon Iraq. Calling the US a rogue
> state is a rather interesting notion,
> albiet maybe not agreeing with the Kyoto
> protocol is rather far stretched
> thought. About the International
> Criminal court, well that is up to
> debate, which really depends on case by
> case. I mean a terrorist group
> attacking america targets such as the
> USS Cole or US Embasy's, and certain
> targets on US soil which I need not
> name, should be tried by the US, for if
> I goto another country and kill someone,
> I would be deported to be on trial in
> that country. Mind you any Embassy is
> that country's soil, aka if I'm in the
> US embassy in some country, I am in fact
> on US soil, not that country's soil. So
> terrorists attacking the US, shall be
> punished by the US, aka the not the
> terrorists being held in Guantanamo Bay,
> Cuba, are for us to handle, not some
> international court which would be
> overseen by countries not even affected
> by the Al Queda Network. Now certain
> people such as Milosevic would be very
> well suited for such a court, but what
> need is there of one when you have the
> UN.
>
> You see when it comes to opinion, anyone
> is allowed to think what they want. But
> Iraq was not allowed to have decide if
> they wanted weapons inspectors, or
> Germany paying billions in retributions
> because of World War 2. The UN, made up
> of many countries placed this on them in
> retrobution for their "crimes." See the
> difference? Kyoto is optional, weapon
> inspectors are not. International
> Criminal Court optional, punishment is
> not. Get it?

07 Jan 2003 11:59 McLaurin

An outrage, but as a tragedy it's overrated.
Murdering 3000 people in one day is a monstrous crime.
But viewed as an act of war, it's puny.
Viewed as a menace to individual Americans, it's even less. Don't forget, we've killed more than 3000 Americans every month since that day, with automobiles, on the roads of the USA - in fact, rather more than 45,000 a year. Probably more than before, what with people being afraid to use airlines.
We've let the terrorists terrify us out of all proportion to their actual power to harm us.

07 Jan 2003 12:12 McLaurin

Re: Next Add-Free Day
It is wrong to equate the people of Iraq with the dictator who runs Iraq. It is therefore wrong to bomb Baghdad even if Saddam Hussein is the second most wicked man on Earth. (Presumably bin Laden is worse). I object to Muslim fanatics holding me responsible for the offences they imagine that my government has committed against them, but I acknowledge that in a democracy the people have more responsibility for the acts of their government than they do in a tyranny or a theocracy. Hatred of peoples for other nations' peoples will continue until we hold individuals responsible for their individual actions, even if they are national or corporate bosses.

07 Jan 2003 12:15 McLaurin

Re: Patriotism...
According to the Old Testament, God did bomb Sodom and Gomorrha, because the men were homosexual. I don't believe it, but lots of Christians say that they do.

05 Mar 2003 08:26 zsenei

What about Bin Laden as an CIA Agent?
What about Bin Laden as an American agent who helped the American policy in Afganistan againtst the Soviet Union?
What about Islam fundametalism which was developed by the USA against the Arab socialism (Nasser and others)?
What about UCK in Kosovo?

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